You have built two Fortune 500 companies yourself and started a third that I hadn't even been aware that was your responsibility, it was cable vision. It went off and became another Fortune 500 company. So one of the great entrepreneurs of the last 50 years. Now if you were starting out today as an entrepreneur, how would America look to you as a country?
It would look like a country of great opportunity. Especially in fields of technology. Scientific and medical research, whether it's genomics, stem cell research, and so on.
And, do you feel that the environment for an entrepeneur is significantly different from when you were starting out? Is it easier? Is it harder?
Well, I think it's actually easier if you look at all the things, all the great startups we've had in garages and so on and how quickly they have uh...matured and how wealthy people have become. I think it's a lot easier today.
And do you feel... there's this current mood about the American economy, and I guess the economy of any developed country that is it is very gloomy... a lot of concern about the future...um...Are you an optimist? Are you a pessimist? How do you feel about all...?
I'm a long-term optimist. Sure we've got a lot of things to concern ourselves with: what's going to happen in the Eurozone; we've got to concern ourselves with the poor state of American education, and how we end up with ...uh... a more competitive workforce, and lots of other things.
Now, do you feel that the current administration has done a good job in addressing those challenges?
I think they did a good job in several areas, in education reform for example, I believe the president and secretary Duncan are doing a great job in moving the ball forward to try to reform American education. K through 12 is really a broken system that needs to be reformed. Uh... we could look at foreign policy and some of us have different views on how that's going. Uh... on economic policy... uh... I think...uh... I wish the administration would create greater confidence
on the part of large corporations on Wall Street.
How would you do that? What do you think they need to do to generate more confidence?
Well, I think they're gonna have to start-- stop talking about uh... what caused all the problems in 07, 08, 09, so on, and move forward. And really embrace uh... American business.
- What does embracing American business mean?
It means less regulation. It means using the bully pulpit to talk about the fact that private enterprises really made this country great. It is going to be less reliant on (the) government in the future.
Now, you mention education... and I - one of the things that struck me in general in your book is to how you talk about your philanthropy - is that you do bring the same hard-headed approach to dealing with - you know - (the) non-profit sector and so forth that you deploy in - deployed in business.
In education, you have really sponsored a number of initiatives including here in New York to try and change the way that system works and yet - and I mean that - most neutral observers would say change has been rolling out painfully slowly that you and other philanthropists have been banging your heads against a brick wall. Do you feel that's the case?
It's been slow; we've been at it for 12 years now. I wish, we are in America, have made greater progress, but I see a lot of good things happening. I see a lot of young governors and mayors more involved than ever. I see parts of the Democratic party are no longer aligned with the teachers unions. I see a...a move toward what I called "blended learning" where you use technology, the best of technology, with the best of teachers working together, uh, to change things. I see the need, uh, for a longer school day and a longer year similar to what they have in other countries. There're lots of things happening and I think we may be closer to some tipping point for a change in K through 12 education.
And do you think that, um, yeah, what t-the the methods that work in the business world, here, can be applied in-in something like the education system?
I-I clearly do. We need competition between regular public schools, public charter schools, and other schools, which we've not had. And that's very (in-happening??) across America.
And how do you interpret the recent strike in Chicago where, that seemed to me, a very important moment in the Democratic Party sort of wrestling with school reform because you had someone like Rom Emanuel who was so closely associated with President Obama falling out with the teachers union so spectacularly
Well, Rom didn't get all of the things he should've gotten. He got, in evaluating teachers, thirty percent is going to be based on student performance which is new. He got a longer school day. He did not get alot of other things. I thought the timing of the negotiations track was very unfortunate coming just six seven weeks before the election.
So you felt he couldn't have pushed as hard as he might have done because he didn't want to embarrass President Obama?
That may have been so.
So what do you think is the greatest progress that has been made on school reform so far?
I think, one, charter schools. I think if we go back like twenty years we have one charter school in America. I think we now have something like five, six million children in charter schools. And they're paving the way. The results of good charter schools, whether its Kip Academy in New York City, uncommom schools, Success Academy here, show that you can educate all kids. You can have ninety percent plus graduation, and a high percentage of those going off to college.
Now some people I suppose most prominently Diane Ravich have accused you and Bill Gates and others of being part of a Billionaire Boys Club thats trying to take over the education system on behalf of corporate America. How do you react to that kind of criticism?
Let me just say I'm not a fan of Diane Ravitch. I've met with her a number of times and she flip flops. She was in a very different place a number of years ago and all of a sudden she became the darling of the Teacher's Unions.
Do you feel ultimately it does come down to the teachers unions, are they the biggest obstacle to reform?
No you've got a broken system. You've got bad governance. You have fourteen thousand school boards made up of political wannabes, well meaning parents, people who are representing labor organizations competing with national education ministries. So we've gotta have a greater role on the part of our governor's, big city mayors. Forty seven governors have agreed to something called "Common Core," which is important.
Whats that?
Well, its the same core curriculum in science and math throughout America. Before that you had some states that had one year of math, one year of science and other states had two or three years. So, we're a nation, we're not competing against each other state by state. We're competing against other nations. And we need a greater role in my view, in the U.S. Department of Education. If you look at whats changed in America, it was no child left behind, which was not perfect, but it created accountability and measurement. You had the Race to the Top which caused about thirty some odd states to change they're laws to allow charter schools and other reforms to take place.
Now you've also been very active in the arts, not the least being one of the people transforming downtown Los Angeles into a much more habitable place and an enjoyable place to visit. Again, you write in the book alot about the difficulties with boards of nonprofit institutions like art museums and your obviously being in the news recently alot of people resigning in protest at the museum of contemporary art in Los Angeles and you delaying your grants and so forth. Is that situation now resolved and what underlying, what lessons do you take?
Well some museum boards including museum of contemporary art have alot of people who have never served on any governing body before. And the problem we had there is we had a new director which we recruited to increase attendance, serve a diverse audience and some of the older trustees were not comfortable with that.
And so, how was it resolved? I think things have quieted down. We're recruiting new trustees and doing a number of other things at the museum of contemporary art. Its being resolved
If you were advising someone today who had been successful in business who was moving into scaling up they're non-profit activity, their philanthropic activity. They want to really be impactful as a donor, what advise would you give them?
Well the areas I'd point them to is K-12 education, I think thats the biggest problem we have in America. I'd also point to scientific and medical research. As you know we've got the Brod Institute in Genomics, partners with Harvard and MIT. We're involved in stem cell research at three California universities.
Well in terms of I guess how you make that transition of being an effective business person, what are the challenges of leadership in the non-profit world compared to the business world?
Well, when we- when we- we don't give money away, we invest it and we look for return.
Broad: In education it's improved student achievement. It's closing the gap between economic groups. It's scientific and medical research. It's advancement, whether its in genomics or stem cell research to improve the human condition.
Bishop: But do you think you can be as unreasonable as a person, as a leader, as a manager in that world and be effective, or do you need a different style, a personal style?
Broad: Well, sometimes you need a different personal style.
Bishop: Characterize that for me.
Broad: Well, you know, if you're CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you're not quite a dictator, but you're pretty close to one. You get your way, and so on, and you convince your board and you move on.
When you're in a non-profit sector, whether it's in education, or science, or especially in the arts, you've got to deal with a very diverse group of people, and you have to have a lot more patience. Patience is not always a virtue.
I loved one of your comments in the book about how, I mean, essentially you don't like to spend more than 3 hours doing absolutely anything. You keep your meetings as short as possible and I have a horrible feeling you'll keep this interview as short as possible. But anyhow, there's sort of ... I mean, I sat through a global fund dinner earlier this week where they had 45 different speakers. Or it seemed like that many all saying the exact same thing. I thought of you at that moment. I wondered whether I could leave as quickly as you would have left. The whole, I mean this approach in life, I mean you get your 8 hours sleep a night which is...
I do, most of the time.
And have you, I mean, do you believe that to be like a ... is this one of the lessons for today's world? That you should be getting 8 hours sleep a night?
Well, everyone has a different need for sleep. I happen to need 8 hours. I see others that get by with 4 or 5 hours and do very well with that.
But, so, you don't think it's ... it's not a tip that you would give everybody?
No. No, no...everyone's different in their sleep needs.
So, uh, the work you've done in stem cell research and the human genome, I guess there's been a sort of sense of, a slight sense of disappointment that the breakthroughs have happened but yet we don't seem to have found that it's filtered through to real life-changing products.
There's a lot of impatience. People want results overnight, and whether genomics or stem cell research, we're starting to see all sorts of good things happening. But the best is yet to come.
When do you think it will really start to impact on most people's lives?
Next several years.
You mean within a decade, or...
Less than a decade.
And where do you expect the first, most interesting first breakthroughs to be?
Well, look at all the things happening. Cancer research, cancer project which we're involved in. In stem cell research, a number of good things are happening. With Parkinson's and other, other diseases.
So you think we could make real inroads against cancer in the next few years.
Well, I, no question about that. It's happening.
Now, um, in the arts, what are the, what are the trends, who are the artists that most excite you at the moment? Any particular trends that we should be looking out for?
Well, what we're doing in the art foundation is, uh, we build Millennial library contemporary art. And we made 8000 loans to 450 institutions in the last 27 years. So we think arts serves a great purpose. It helps create creativity and so on. So our purpose is to have a broader audience interested in contemporary art design, because we think it will stimulate creativity amongst the, uh, a lot more people.
I remember talking to Bill Gates and him saying No I'm not going to give money to opera houses and he seemed very dismissive of philanthropy that was going into the arts and do you see it as, I mean, obviously you see it as useful thing to put your money into. But what is it that you feel supporting the arts can do for society?
Why, I think that, well I think it's great for our economy. I think the cultural tourism whether it's Los Angeles or New York is very important. I think it helps people become more creative. They look at things and there's always a shock, and they think about it and learn from it.
And do you feel that America does enough on the arts or is there
No, we don't do enough on the arts compared with European nations and certain Asian nations.
So where would you like to see most focus?
I'd like to see more focus on supporting our great art institutions, in addition to what we have to do in education, K-12 and higher ed.
Now, earlier on, this morning I spoke to Ellen Kullman who runs Dupont, and asked her this question that is obviously a debate that's taking place amongst a lot of women, as to whether they can have it all, whether they can have a successful professional career, and a successful family life [or not]. And I was very struck in your book, in your reflections at the end, that you talked about how you'd had a successful professional career, a successful philanthropic career, a great marriage, but you felt you neglected your relationship with your sons to some extent. I mean, how do you--what would you advise people now that are thinking about--
Well, in the early years, you know, it was 24/7 as they say, and if I had to do it over again, I would probably spend more time with my boys when they were growing up. So I paid a price for a success.
And do you think that was a price worth paying?
Well, you can't look back; I always look forward. If I had to do it over again, I'd do it somewhat differently.
So what advice would you give to people starting out now who are--
If they're starting out, it's 24/7 and you're going to have to make sacrifices if you want succeed.
So men can't have it all either.
Everyone has to make their own choices about whether you're willing to put in the energy and time to make things really happen [or not], or if they want to have a more comfortable, balanced life, that's a choice they can make. But they will not be as successful as someone that's driven.
So ultimately it really does come down to, you know, if you really want to be successful, you have to basically sacrifice a normal life in some ways.
For a while, certainly, when you're starting.
And do you think there's nothing we can really do to change how society works, how business works, to make that less of a price to pay?
I'm sure we can; I'm not sure how. Some European nations have done a better job of that than we have.
Although I guess you'd look at Europe and say that may have resulted in...breakdown.
Well, if you look for french, Italians you have one view, if you look at Germany there's another view.
What is it about America that, for you, has made it such an effective place for entrepreneurs?
I think there's great opportunity here. America's meritocracy. The city I live in, Los Angeles, is a great meritocracy. I came here without the right politics, the right religion, the right social background, the right..and so on. And if you're willing to work hard and have great ideas you're accepted.
That's true almost throughout everywhere in America
See now that belief is increasingly, y'know, challenged by academics who look at data and say there's less mobility, and in the political debate at the moment, I mean this notion that America's still got this ability. . . the american dream is still in good shape. I mean that is being questioned. I mean do you still think it's as lively as ever?
I think the American dream is still there for those who have the education and are willing to work and find that dream.
And so the one thing we need to do is to fix the education system and-
That's the biggest problem we have K-12 education. We've got millions of jobs in America that can't be filled because we don't have the skilled workforce. The counsel of foreign relations came out with a report saying that education's a national security issue, and that 70% of 18-24 year olds are not fit to serve in our military today, for education and other reasons. So we've got a big job to do to fix a broken system of education.
Alright, if you had a wishlist for the one thing you would like to see change quickly in the education system, over the next twelve months, I mean, what would that one thing be?
Well I don't know about twelve months, but I'd love to see us go to blended learning, which is taking the best of technology and the best of teachers and having them work together. The American classroom hasn't changed in 150 years.
And you think now is the moment to change it?
It is, and it's starting to change in a number of places across America.
Bishop: Well, Eli Broad, I'd...thank you very much for sh(aring)....for coming to join us this morning, it's been very inspiring to hear your comments, and I do thoroughly recommend your book "The Art of Being Unreasonable"...I...I...I think it is the best thing I've read in entrepreneurship in a very long time...
Broad: You're very nice...
Bishop: ...so thank you very much.
Broad: Good to be with you.
Bishop: Right, thank you very much.
